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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting-2018-12-13 · t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/index.html">t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html">meeting-2018-12-13</a></h3>

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<a name="151610457"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151610457" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151610457">(Dec 13 2018 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Just a note that we will have a meeting today (cc <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="810">@WG-unsafe-code-guidelines</span>) in approximately 1hour 45 minutes. Feel free to leave some notes in this topic re: agenda etc.</p>



<a name="151610524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151610524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151610524">(Dec 13 2018 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/49/files#r236762111" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/49/files#r236762111">Bool and C FFI</a>: Should we really raise this to the lang team, given prior comments? (I see also that <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/53" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/53">Issue #53</a> was opened, I forget if we discussed this before?)</li>
</ul>



<a name="151611887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151611887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151611887">(Dec 13 2018 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think so. Most people seem to be fine with <code>bool == _Bool</code>. We should just document exactly what that means, and what it entails for all platforms that Rust supports. Something like</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Rust's <code>bool</code> has the same layout as C17's <code>_Bool</code>, that is its size and alignment are _implementation-defined_. On all platforms that Rust's currently supports, the size and alignment of <code>bool</code> are <code>1</code>.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(or something like that, maybe also noting that its ABI class is INTEGER - is this the case for all supported platforms?)</p>



<a name="151612075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151612075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151612075">(Dec 13 2018 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Once we talk about validity of <code>bool</code>, we should do the same: </p>
<blockquote>
<p>Rust's <code>bool</code> has the same valid representations as C17's <code>_Bool</code>, that is, two valid _implementation-defined_ bit-patterns corresponding to  <code>true</code> and <code>false</code> - all other bit-patterns are _invalid_. On all platforms that Rust's currently supports, <code>0x0</code> is the bit-pattern of <code>false</code>, and <code>0x1</code> is the bit-pattern of <code>true</code>.</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="151612346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151612346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151612346">(Dec 13 2018 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe adding a note about C20 / C++20 (might be irrelevant, don't know):</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Note: There are two proposals, NXYZW for C and PXYZW for C++, which propose defining <code>0x0</code> as the bit-pattern for <code>false</code> and <code>0x1</code> as the bit-pattern for <code>true</code> in the C and C++ standards.</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="151612938"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151612938" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151612938">(Dec 13 2018 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or does anyone think differently ? cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="137587">@Gankro</span> <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124289">@rkruppe</span> <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="133214">@briansmith</span> ?</p>



<a name="151613494"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151613494" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151613494">(Dec 13 2018 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>agreed. maybe with some warning (at least for size and align) that unsafe code should avoid hard-coding assumptions about the size of bool if it can.</p>



<a name="151614580"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151614580" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151614580">(Dec 13 2018 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm planning on documenting the controversy (did not realize bools were so controversial) and the decision</p>



<a name="151615719"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151615719" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Hanna Kruppe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151615719">(Dec 13 2018 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132920">@gnzlbg</span> sounds good too me</p>



<a name="151616254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151616254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> RalfJ <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151616254">(Dec 13 2018 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as mentioned yesterday, I'll not be able to attend. I am in a train with internet now, but will probably be changing buses and walking through the city center for most of the meeting.)</p>



<a name="151616737"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151616737" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151616737">(Dec 13 2018 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><strong>Agenda</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>We're finalizing the last writeups for repr<ul>
<li>bool: I will document the controversy and decisions that have already been made</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Upcoming holiday meetings: 20 Dec, 27 Dec, 3 Jan<ul>
<li>I'm planning on having the 20 Dec and skipping 27 Dec</li>
<li>what do people think about 3 Jan</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>I'll probably write up a Rust2019 post for this wg and formal verification -- let me know if you have input</li>
<li>Ralf wrote up the intro for the next topic (validity) --&gt; ready to merge?</li>
</ul>



<a name="151618760"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151618760" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151618760">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello friends of UnsafeLand :) Anything to add to the agenda?</p>



<a name="151618775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151618775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151618775">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's good :)</p>



<a name="151618793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151618793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151618793">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi</p>



<a name="151618922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151618922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151618922">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>i'm editing the floating point et al writeup and i know niko is working on enums</p>



<a name="151618930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151618930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151618930">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> </p>
<blockquote>
<p>bool: I will document the controversy and decisions that have already been made</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that for <code>bool</code> you can just verbatim use my quotes from above in the PR. There might be some nits to fix in those, but something along those lines suffices. </p>
<p>I wouldn't really document anything about the controversy, but if you really want to, one could add a note that clarifies things:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>note: So which properties of <code>bool</code> can <code>unsafe</code> code actually rely on? It depends. "Fully portable" <code>unsafe</code> code cannot rely on _implementation-defined_ properties for correctness because these might change across implementations or targets. However, <code>unsafe</code> code that only wants to be portable to all platforms that Rust currently support and unsupported platforms in which <code>bool</code>s behave the same, which are many, can rely on the _implementation-defined_ behavior that is known for those platforms.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>EDIT: the controversy itself was about trying to answer that question without the "It depends".</p>



<a name="151619046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619046">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="emoji emoji-1f44b" title="wave">:wave:</span>  I am indeed working on the enum PR</p>



<a name="151619063"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619063" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619063">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had hoped to finish it this morning, but mostly I wound up just reading issues and things</p>



<a name="151619068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619068">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>And <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/51" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/51">https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/51</a> is still dragging on.</p>



<a name="151619111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619111">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>(refs and pointers)</p>



<a name="151619123"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619123" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619123">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132920">@gnzlbg</span> i was thinking writing something along the lines of :</p>
<p>there was some debate about what to pick as the "official" behavior:<br>
    Rust does what C does<br>
    - and in all cases you care about, that is 1 byte that is 0 or 1<br>
or<br>
    rust makes it 1 byte with values 0 or 1<br>
    - and in all cases you care about, this is what C does<br>
the "official lang team decision" at some point was for the former</p>



<a name="151619154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619154">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>but i think we're all actually on the same page with that</p>



<a name="151619176"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619176" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619176">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="128323">@Alan Jeffrey</span> any sticking points on refs and pointers</p>



<a name="151619213"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619213" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619213">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>it didn't seem like there were any genuine controversies there</p>



<a name="151619224"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619224" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619224">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>mostly just debate about how to phrase things?</p>



<a name="151619234"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619234" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619234">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> nothing major, just nits being picked :)</p>



<a name="151619358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619358">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, slow progress, but PROGRESS</p>



<a name="151619371"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619371" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619371">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>(understandable with all hands last week)</p>



<a name="151619382"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619382" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619382">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me still doesn't know what day it is</p>



<a name="151619384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619384">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>=)</p>



<a name="151619406"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619406" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619406">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I guess the controversy was about what answer should the question: What can <code>unsafe</code> code rely on about <code>bool</code>? I and others wanted a simple answer at the cost of C interoperability on weird platforms. Others argued that the current answer is simple if you only consider non-weird platforms. Those two are just at tension.</p>



<a name="151619508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619508">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Indeed.</p>



<a name="151619592"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619592" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619592">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>Are we ready to chat about december/january meetings?</p>



<a name="151619666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619666">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I could make it the 3rd, I can't make it the 27th.</p>



<a name="151619681"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619681" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619681">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm inclined to stick with the prior decision mostly because it exists, but I guess it also depends on what we do in other places. I'm not sure if similar things arise elsewhere, or if we've settled them, but if we were to say that we define our behavior to be "simple things that align with C on non-weird platforms" vs "aligning with C first", then it would probably make sense to be consistent. For this reason, I'm ok with leaving it as "semi-undecided"</p>



<a name="151619699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619699">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think I could make it the 3rd, I can't make it the 27th.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>me too</p>



<a name="151619703"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619703" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619703">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm inclined to skip the 27th because I'll be playing with my Christmas presents</p>



<a name="151619729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619729">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I think that's true for everyone</p>



<a name="151619733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619733">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, sounds good</p>



<a name="151619737"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619737" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619737">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least many</p>



<a name="151619767"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619767" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619767">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good, then we'll have a meeting next week and then reconvene in january</p>



<a name="151619813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619813">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> i think changing the current decided behavior would need an RFC, and it doesn't make much sense to drag that discussion into our RFC</p>



<a name="151619840"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619840" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619840">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Next topic: Rust2019 for this WG</p>



<a name="151619851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619851">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>does anyone have specific goals/input/comments/etc</p>



<a name="151619871"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619871" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619871">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>My sense is: the current process is OK, but moving very slowly, largely as a result of nobody having quite enough time.</p>



<a name="151619893"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619893" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619893">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's a good idea to try and set some larger Rust 2019 goals</p>



<a name="151619928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619928">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd hate for us to stop, in any case :) but we should also think about if there are ways to enable us to make faster progress</p>



<a name="151619995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151619995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151619995">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> what things are you thinking about</p>



<a name="151620000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620000">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., maybe we should plan for a special meeting, as we've sometimes discussed, if we could pull something like that together?</p>



<a name="151620014"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620014" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620014">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>tbh i'm not really sure</p>



<a name="151620023"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620023" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620023">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd be really happy if we could close out this 1st discussion area before 2019 though :)</p>



<a name="151620028"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620028" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620028">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> do you think we should offline with aaron about that?</p>



<a name="151620032"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620032" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620032">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh. we will.</p>



<a name="151620038"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620038" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620038">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me makes a determined face</p>



<a name="151620049"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620049" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620049">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:31)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>do you think we should offline with aaron about that?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>probably, we won't decide <em>now</em></p>



<a name="151620179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620179">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>i'll follow up on that after this meeting</p>



<a name="151620189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620189">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>and if anyone has comments about UCG2019, let me know</p>



<a name="151620201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620201">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I'm not sure what else we would say beyond "we did this so far, next up is that".</p>



<a name="151620222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620222">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and maybe just outlining again how things are meant to work as a kind of advertisement)</p>



<a name="151620250"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620250" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620250">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think outlining some concrete goals now that we've done this a bit would be in scope</p>



<a name="151620297"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620297" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620297">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some advertisement definitely sounds good, advertising that we want to land an RFC in 2019 for things that <code>unsafe</code> code is allowed to rely on might get some attention.</p>



<a name="151620319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620319">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am not sure how easy it is to jump into this given that we don't have basic terminology written down yet.</p>



<a name="151620350"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620350" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620350">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm so one thing I could imagine, as a kind of roadmap</p>



<a name="151620364"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620364" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620364">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132920">@gnzlbg</span> what sort of basic terminology are you thinking</p>



<a name="151620371"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620371" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620371">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>is doing a better job outlining the 'larger areas' that we expect to focus on</p>



<a name="151620419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620419">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> terminology like "representation" bogged down the defn of pointers,</p>



<a name="151620468"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620468" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620468">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can imagine there's other instances.</p>



<a name="151620471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620471">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126854">@avadacatavra</span> "layout", "validity", "safety", etc. <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="128323">@Alan Jeffrey</span> had some troubles jumping in because we were using these terms hmm very specially</p>



<a name="151620492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620492">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good</p>



<a name="151620516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620516">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>right now I think we're focusing (and it makes sense) on relatively simple, contained properties. I think there are other, larger questions -- e.g., what about embedded platforms that know they have no threads, can they rely on that? Is that "safe"? What about the problem of unsafe composability? -- maybe we can try to draft up a sort of categorizatioon that tries to lay out those problems and specifies one or two we aim to tackle thus far?</p>



<a name="151620527"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620527" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620527">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>someone that doesn't know what is implied by them will definetely have trouble following, separating what the different discussions are about, etc. but a blog post would be a great place to introduce them more informally</p>



<a name="151620549"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620549" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620549">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and yes, terminology is tricky too)</p>



<a name="151620562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620562">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>i like everything that we're saying now</p>



<a name="151620582"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620582" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620582">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> wanted to write down basic terminology, but one problem there was that they wanted to write them very precisely, but their definitions aren't 100% precise or in stone yet</p>



<a name="151620584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620584">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>From my perspetive, though, I think it makes sense to keep our focus on "enabling compiler optimizations"</p>



<a name="151620591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620591">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's pretty concrete and also pretty universally relevant</p>



<a name="151620601"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620601" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620601">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's a good point</p>



<a name="151620646"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620646" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620646">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>(in terms of that larger roadmap)</p>



<a name="151620649"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620649" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620649">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/50" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/50">https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/50</a></p>



<a name="151620651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620651">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>anything else is really the unsafe cherry on top</p>



<a name="151620721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620721">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>so how can we bring this "definition of terms" discussions to faster resolution?</p>



<a name="151620730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620730">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think we have an open pr for one of them</p>



<a name="151620735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620735">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>and idk what the status of that is</p>



<a name="151620738"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620738" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620738">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I could imagine trying to schedule an ad-hoc voice meeting with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span>, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="128323">@Alan Jeffrey</span>, and maybe a few others</p>



<a name="151620739"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620739" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620739">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>we have a place to define them</p>



<a name="151620762"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620762" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620762">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>We could open an issue to nail them down at least, to a sufficient degree.</p>



<a name="151620765"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620765" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620765">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>to help push consensus along</p>



<a name="151620813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620813">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>why don't we say that we should have that by next week</p>



<a name="151620814"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620814" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620814">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like to be a part of that</p>



<a name="151620837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620837">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>why don't we say that we should have that by next week</p>
</blockquote>
<p>have what exactly</p>



<a name="151620849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nicole Mazzuca <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620849">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>the voice discussion of terms</p>



<a name="151620850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620850">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>have a list of terms to be defined at the least</p>



<a name="151620860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620860">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>and hopefully the discussion</p>



<a name="151620925"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620925" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620925">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>i'd say <br>
1. make a list of terms in the issue alan linked<br>
2. identify terms that we can reach consensus on in the issue/on zulip (separate topic per term)<br>
3. anything else, settle in a voice meeting</p>



<a name="151620931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620931">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that for people to jump in, a small informal definition of what we understand by "representation", "validity", and "safety" invariants of a type, would be enough.</p>



<a name="151620985"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620985" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620985">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>it'd be good for somebody to prepare initial definitions (perhaps multiple someones)</p>



<a name="151620990"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151620990" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151620990">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm bringing <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/50" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/50">https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/issues/50</a> back to life</p>



<a name="151621001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621001">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then we can put them in both the writeup/intro and i'll include them in UCG2019</p>



<a name="151621024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621024">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds good, I would like to focus on "informal" here, these don't have to be perfect</p>



<a name="151621075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621075">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok. What's next on agenda? if possible, I'd like to leave sharply at 11:45 (in a few minutes)</p>



<a name="151621091"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621091" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621091">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess there's Ralf's Intro?</p>



<a name="151621095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621095">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Last agenda topic: Validity intro</p>



<a name="151621133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621133">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>ready to merge?</p>



<a name="151621148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621148">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm a +1 on it</p>



<a name="151621200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621200">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>+1 from me</p>



<a name="151621219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621219">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>might be enough to tell <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> to merge it when they think its ready</p>



<a name="151621222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621222">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've not really read it yet</p>



<a name="151621225"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621225" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621225">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm leaving one comment, but generally <span class="emoji emoji-1f44d" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="151621227"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621227" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621227">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:46)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> sounds good</p>



<a name="151621279"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621279" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621279">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me left a comment</p>



<a name="151621281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621281">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok--that's all i have</p>



<a name="151621288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621288">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>any last comments?</p>



<a name="151621293"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621293" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621293">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>i've left some comments but I think its fine to not discuss some of the things in the initial round</p>



<a name="151621305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621305">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I pretty much agree with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> replies there</p>



<a name="151621327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621327">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>The only thing I would say before we close is it's probably good if everyone states their plan over next week, particularly if our goal is to finish up reprsentation stuff:</p>
<ul>
<li>My goal is to get an enum writeup up ASAP</li>
</ul>



<a name="151621384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621384">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd really really like to merge refs + pointers.</p>



<a name="151621393"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621393" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621393">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>My goal is to make edits to floating point writeup, submit the intro and start work on UCG2019. And start nagging you all before thursday</p>



<a name="151621403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621403">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:48)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm leaving one comment, but generally <span class="emoji emoji-1f44d" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>my comment is <a href="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/54/files#r241477311" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-rfcs/unsafe-code-guidelines/pull/54/files#r241477311">here</a></p>



<a name="151621413"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621413" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621413">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also a voice meeting if we decide to have one.</p>



<a name="151621562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621562">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="128323">@Alan Jeffrey</span> i think refs+pointers is pretty much ready to go</p>



<a name="151621593"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621593" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621593">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me disappears</p>



<a name="151621658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> avadacatavra <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621658">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Nice chat all!</p>



<a name="151621667"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621667" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621667">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>i left a comment today, but I don't think the current text is incorrect, also, if someone cares a lot, they can always send a PR later</p>



<a name="151621672"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151621672" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> gnzlbg <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151621672">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>bye!</p>



<a name="151622027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13/near/151622027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alan Jeffrey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/136281-t-lang/wg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/meeting-2018-12-13.html#151622027">(Dec 13 2018 at 16:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>bye</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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